I hope you had a great halloween, here is my ode to Halloween and the fall,
a new order of Bisen that came in for me. Also while I couldn’t go outside I consoled myself with this Will O’ Wisp Memo pad which is both gothy and has beautiful boys
(which leads us to Yaoi; Yaoi=Japanese romances between two boys/guys. The stronger aggressive is called Seme, the more femme and less aggressive is an Uke).Okay, now before we go on, Yaoi is generally liked by GIRLS. Why, because first off gay guys don’t tend to like guys who like a lot like girls (drag queens excepted), the ones I knew were all “Brad Pitt’s condo any day!” While actually gay guys like Rupert Everet, who would almost make me straight
(as long as he always wore tuxes and kept his clothes on!), they were like, “Nah, to effete, I like them rough and ready!” Eh? But they do have a point because let’s face it, this is about as “manly” as Yaoi gets
(LOOK! One of them has facial hair...well about 9 or so, I guess Yaoi doesn’t do “bears” (“bears” are hairy gay guys)):Okay, straight guys don’t like Yaoi generally because a) they are two guys and straight guys run from saying, “Hey those two guys are cute!” And b) Yaoi uses tradition male/female roles which get into your head and then guys are like, “Are you sure one of them isn’t a girl?”
Girls on the other hand, get to see all their fantasies played out in gay love, which is also done over here but called “Slash Fiction” where Harry Potter and Wesley get it on, or Jack from Pirates and Orlando are ‘good friends’. And after all, as I can attest from joining what I thought was a ‘penpal’ online site (to prove I COULD have a straight male friend…more on that….), but turned out to be like a sex hook up site (not at all what was advertised). And while there I got lots and lots of messages that boiled down to, “Do you do anal?”(or threesomes and anal?) So obviously guys have an anal sex fantasy with women, therefore they must not mind it themselves (turns out this isn’t exactly true…even though GUYS have this gland there that makes it sort of fun and girls don’t, yet girls get asked/expected?). Okay, that just got us an R rating. Well, in the top 10 fantasies for women was a strap-on fantasy, just letting you know (that was for straight women).
Okay, back to Yaoi, because I got this book from an artist who makes postcards I like, I have one of them, the rest I sent out. His name is Yamamoto Kazue and he did a game called Angel’s Feathers that I will probably learn Japanese to play if I lived long enough. I like cute things with wings (I REALLY like girls with wings!). So to me, seeing guys with wings is CUTE,
I don’t know how else to say it. I’m not aroused but it is cute.Okay, then we go from the, two guys in uniforms, or two guys with wings in uniforms to more, um, well, sort of in the cracks of my mind sexual fantasies. Because here we have the “winter cabin” fantasy:
which yes has at least ONE clear guy, only see, I’ve always wanted to be the sort of casual sexy snow bunny who while just putting on an oversize sweater looks all sexy, vulnerable and comfy. Of course, when you ARE oversized (just on THIS planet!), then getting that look requires someone with me who is like, um 6’8”? But this um, guy, in the sweater has that look down pat (guy?). This is where the questioning of gender starts. So not aroused but like, Sigh, I wish that was me…..with a butch! (or Linda, or course!)Okay so then comes the crossdressing, which wasn’t BLATANT in the last one but in this one it is,
and I can appreciate, as that dress goes great with the hair, but doesn’t do anything for me as anyone who smokes, particuarly a scraggle faced guy is a turn-off. And also, don’t like being put on a knee like a possession. So not identifying with this cross dressed male who is cute, but flat. But also, is having clothes her…I mean his dress ruined by the smoke of inconsiderate dude.Now we get into a bit more, well obvious sexual fantasies. I mean this one, while one is definitely a guy (has sword!),
the other is pretty much Fantasy #14 out of the handbook of classic fantasies: Butch (or Dude) comes to the rescue, and presses your thankful body to hers/his while for some reason you are still only in your negligee/sleep-shirt. So, not really seeing the grateful femme as a guy at this point, seeing this as hetero fantasy that we need MORE OF in lesbian land. More girls with swords saving the day, pulling out femmes and carrying them off.And this is the part where I start to get aroused,
because quite honestly, the pictures are starting to get to a point where I am sort of seeing a picture of my fantasy (in my head played out in pictures here!), and not seeing any guys, like this one. Okay, strong butch wearing the classic butch muscle top with CLASSIC butch haircut (GIRL!) is comforting the scared femme in the woods. I mean, is this not the start of a beautiful fantasy; the need to be lead out of the woods, the ‘I just got away”, the “I’m so cold”, the getting pulled close. Beth is starting to get the tingle EXCEPT…..I looking at pictures of YAOI – you know gay guys.Never mind, move on, right, that was just a coincidence, except then comes this titillate picture.
First off, that’s a butch, that’s a butch, that’s a butch! I know a butch outfit and hair cut, in fact I have seen several of those haircuts. Second, look at the hips of our naked femme? Guy hips? Really? And second, why are the two of them covering the breasts? I mean that is a guy, but the breasts are being covered? And those hips, I am not thinking of um, “packages” (thank you Sasha for putting that in my mind!), when I see that.And followed up by this.
Okay, both wearing girl’s silk kimono’s falling delicately off the shoulders, covering the breasts and behind our femme is a butch caressing her flushed (sexually?) face; the butch wears her kimono but look at the white girl’s face and TELL me that is a guy. Well according to the author it is. And this is not two lesbians about to have a romantic encounter, these are two guys, one with great collarbones, both in silk about to have a romantic encounter. Which means that if I am aroused by this point (and I am!) then does that make me a straight female, am I hetero, because I like the fantasy of cute guys. Except they aren’t GUYS! I mean look at them! Ahhhhhhhhh! (this is our…um….unnamed female trying to decide to bring out the vibrator or hide the book forever!)And to finish me off….er….I mean the unnamed female is responding strongly to THIS picture.
Now first, not only is that sort of a cosplay, or sexy dress up but I SEE BREASTS! Sorry, I tend to shout that out at inappropriate moments. But come on, our femme is a femme. And this IS one of the great straight or lesbian fantasies (particularly lesbian I think) – of a butch in a tux, sweeping you away (or if you are butch, making them go ga-ga for you in your tux as you help your ‘friend’ who needs to go home ‘right now’ and needs your help to get out of her outfit! I think for straight girls you put an early Pierce Brosnan in the tux and get swept away as you are Laura Holt, PI undercover (“This is strictly professional, you understand” – leads to deep kiss!). Oh, fine, I’ll dance with you, I’ll do what you want (hee hee!).Okay, that’s the end, the guys can uncover their eyes. So, beautiful boys dressed up still are cute, but still are boys! And I am not that into boys, however cute they get (though I do like ‘dress up’, for everyone!). So the fact that I am breathing heavy by the end of this book, from these pictures. Does that mean I am out of the L-word? Am I a lesbian with straight girl fantasies? Or is my mind so Queer centric that I have the power to turn all I see into butch/femme romantic fantasies? I just don’t know?
What do you see? What do the pictures make you think? Just for my….I mean the sake of an unnamed confused, thought she was lesbian female.
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34 comments:
Okay, the two kids in the kimonos? Girls. We likes girls, we does...
Topless with jeans, in the water? Girl being cuddled by maybe-a-girl. Growwwrrrrrr!
Um, purpler hair cuddling long blonde hair: two girls. Sorry, there's no guys in that drawing, despite the male-looking biceps.
Hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder prefers girls. No matter how good-looking Pierce Brosnan is.
Love and hugs!
Neil
Ahh!!! I converted you! Yeah another one for the hetero team! See I told you girls were nothing but slime (in that wet kinda way).
Love from your favorite Hetero, frog loving friend--Maggie
Thank you Beth, I needed that interlude of smiles and giggles. You are right though. Sometimes in Yoai it is hard to tell the difference.
Thank you for your sense of humor!
Love and Hugs,
Laura
i think we see what we want to see or more so what we would be interested in. so i don't think your straight, but i do think that the artist needs to really go back and study the basic male anatomy and the differences between that and the female one. i think the artist is the one swapping sides more than you are. just my opinion.
-Carey
What a nice evening interlude. Well played. Nice build up. I'd say you, like me, are queer in the head and read into these all the twisted gender possibilities and roles that our kinked brains are capable of. I have a hard time figuring out exactly why I find Yaoi sexy, but I think there is this frisson of energy that comes from the combination of the deliberate upending of normative gender roles and the underlying confusion brought on by the way the figures slide in and out of their genders. They change back and forth while we are actually looking at the card. They morph, they confuse, they titillate. The confusion puts one slightly off-kilter and that is stimulating.
You're still a great, big lesbo. Take it from me. Ahem.
Elizabeth! You think you've got a problem - at this rate I'll get into trouble at work! I guess it serves me right for reading your blog rather than working (though it WAS my break...) - but I was alternately ogling and laughing, and dropping my hot drink all over my desk. I felt I had to minimise whenever someone walked past my door, but couldn't stop reading - or looking!
Glad to hear the brain turn-on is still in some sort of working order, even if the body's playing up.....
I can't tell if they are male or female. Pretty to look at either way. :P You don't have to be straight to enjoy looking!
I don't think you have anything to worry about. Cuz those "guys" just aren't. Even worse, they strike me as adolescent male at best, or, in the case of the "ukes," even just out of kindergarten. Only if I imagine them to be female are the poses and appearances even remotely possible for teens and adults. Even very pretty men in real life still look like men, but these pictures look like women. Keep right on seeing those yaoi scenes as butch erotica. They make far more sense that way.
Guess it depends on what 'bits' you take your cue from. Obviously there are certain characteristics that are part of the archetypes for each style... but my goodness it is SO down to interpretation.
They are very, very pretty :) I do so like romantic pictures and settings. The intensity of the one with the tux... well...
donimo said what I'd like to have far better than I could manage.
I agree that gender and orientation are just such a rich spectrum that it's entirely possible to be completely gay/lesbian or straight as can be and still find the odd attraction in the most suprising places!
I find it all quite fascinating and of course, this is a gorgeous illustration of just what is the sexiest organ of the human body: the mind. Yours, being rather brilliant and exceptional in many ways, sees so many shades of variation - it's one of the things I love about you!
With the pictures, the one you cried 'butch!' to, I tend to agree here as well. See those delicate hands? Yet on the 'blatant cross dressing' one, the be-dressed individual has rather, um, manly hands (and I say this as a woman-identified-woman who has rather large for a woman hands!).
Meh, but that's just what I saw.
Also, that classic dyke haircut one WAS pretty hot... and yep, those are pretty feminine hips...
All this talk makes me think of another fascinating realm of shades: those who might identify as intersexed. The best of both worlds?
They are my woman and me. I bravely protect her, firmly grasp her, and she never wants me to let go. People lable me many things. I don't fit well into boxes. Most humans are bisexual. Fall in love and your heart will answer all your questions and chase your worries away.
I'd say you are definitely still a lesbian sis. My mind immediately translated those last pictures into butch/femme pairings. It wasn't a hard translation to make.
I've been following this blog for a few months and have never commented, but this post made me laugh...
As for yaoi? Those pictures are all totally girly. So I'm not really into it, but if you are, well, great!
I <3 your blog btw.
Sorry, my "new" hotmail seemed to eat several comments so they didn't show up - which is good as I thought, "Geez, now everyone thinks I am too pervy to talk to!"
Neil: We like them girls too and quite honestly, if not a girl, why stop at the collarbone, is that not the classic feminine tease?
And yeah, that butch has some muscles but I just can't take those hips and top covering as.....a guy who is REALLY shy about nipples? Actually, this is tittilating materical OR this is a person who has the WORST luck ever keeping their top on!
Maggie: Yes, I am converted, now you just need to produce me guys who look like this and we will talk. And see how much I like you by letting you get away with that slime remark becuase guys have um, fluid issues. Besides, soft lips! Or chapped? Now it is your sign off that disturbs me, "frog-loving" and you use slime as a BAD word?
Laura: I thought we could take a break from all the medical and quite honestly I have been sort of blue and now I am finding that Yaoi (or this artists) is bringing the mental tingles, so bring on the Yaoi!
Carey: Yes, you should have seen the tap pant sleep set one of them is wearing later, I am going? Where IS the um, package. And also, where do they get the wonder yaoi clothes - is there a shop: "Uke wear to look your most femme!"
Well interesting you say that becuase there is a book coming from the same artist which is....ALL women! So we shall see how that goes.
Donimo: Ah good, I am glad to lift your spirits. Yes, this one really went past the line in gender and back again. For me, I think the one of the guy in green is facinating because he is the Seme in other pictures, he is not happy, not like our Uke at the fireplace who is happy to be the femme snow bunny (Linda said that scene shows up in 10% of harliquin romances!), but is there with the perfectly matched dress, bonnet and neck ribbon - fu-fu!
I agree, maybe some of the titillation is the shifting aspect; though maybe because lesbians often refuse to use or admit that heteroromantic scenes like these can BE stimulating if queered - that they are sort of wired into our TV age brains; and besides who didn't get excited when one of the book or TV heroines got to cross dress and then started to 'protect' one of the other girls, the thrill of adopting alternate gender roles?
Rachael: Horaay! Well, at least I wasn't blocked at work, that's a relief! I am glad it made you laugh, they are pretty pictures, which are also turn ons (Well for me) but in a confusing way. And I tried to write it in a way that most people could find humorous. Except those who think I am going to hell - in which case, this was not a funny post, no, I recommend putting it up in church with the pictures to talk about...at length!
Wendryn: Oh, VERY pretty, you don't put out nice hip and collar bone lines so artfully revealed by silk without wanting a bit of um, fantasy.
Yanub: I take it where you are guys are square jawed and built like trucks. Becuase there are guys like this, in high school (the guy with the sword is older), - they just either wear long black trench coats, get beat up or both. The Uke's I agree seem very well um, moisturized?! They seem to keep that very youthful vulnerablility where part of thier body says, "yes, I'm a teen (or older)" but the cheeks say either "I'm a girl!" or "I'm about 10." I prefer to go with girl, though I have seen several guys with that kind of youthful look; of course turns out several had medical conditions: Hey, one guy had male pattern balding in our class by 16, and one looked like he might one day hit puberty.
Thea: Yes, it is true, depends what you want to look for - I can see for the butches you could look at arms and go, "That's a guy....with a really odd hair style and the need for full body waxing"
And they do work on archtypes too which is why they hit me so well, the green dress and red roses, the snow cottage, long hair, legs in a feminine pose and a hot mug; rescued; rescued and warmed in the woods - yup, no classic romantic storylines there!
And I agree that um get up, I have worn a lot in public but that, well, I prefer over the knee with bows than the stockings with garters. But yes, a bit caught by the tux person, a bit held, a bit enticed......oh my.
Lisa: Well, I am glad what would get me stoned in some places gets me respect here! Woot! Well, I think the thing is people don't actually go out and say, "Hey, I find this attractive, or this turns me on and why" unless it is some group thing like a film star.
It is interesting as I noticed the hands too; and yes, with marfans I have large hands, in fact my last pastor introduced me as "This looming lady who had the most delicate but gigantic hands" (I tried to smile while mentally strangling him!).
Actually, there are several intersexed series in Manga; the most famous being Day of Revolution; but there are about 4 or 5 which deal with it in one form or another. I think personally the stigma of 'fitting in' and the shame of hiding ambigious or other genitalia taught tends more towards a sense of isolation; that no one understand the experience. Unless you meant bisexual or perhaps what used to be known as hermaphrodite (a very rare condition in which at last count only six individual had fully functioning sets of both sexual organs - while intersex, for example; had a woman disqualified after winning the 100 yard dash a year or two ago in the Asian Games becuase her genitalia was ambigious - though she had competed and been inspected at least a dozen times before. Headlines, sent back to India village in shame.)
Sorry, back on topic. I have to say I wonder, as the neuropathy has spread, as someone mentioned; it works in the brain, if not elsewhere; where I fit in, is having a brain orientation enough without a functional body? (Side note, while I know orgasms are 'part of the MIND' it DID feel like there was some pretty strong sensations somewhere ELSE, if you know what I mean. So without the ELSE, I take what I can get!).
Diane: I agree, fall in love, don't worry about boxes but I like that while I use the images for my fantasy (the femme - I mean really, I am over 6 foot but still a femme, but never a 'sweep off your feet, or hold on to your neck and lean into you' femme - probably hence the fantasy/wish fulfillment!) - and you take the parts you want for your fantasy: To wish I can only say YES, because having seen your comment photo, I want to see the TUX picture! Oh wait, does that count as flirting?
Cheryl: Oh, so I still don't make it up to Perv on the Cheryl guide! Darn. Not that I was aiming there, I just figuring bearing all of my...er....an unknown females fantasies over these pics would get me confusion/queer cred if nothing else!
Anon: Thanks for reading and for commenting. I am glad you read and like it (well except the depressing bits, who likes that?).
Um, yeah, I kind of dig that pairing; butch/femme. I take it you are into guys - and not the kind who look like the wax, have never shaved and have some sort of hormonal imbalance?
Glad you laughed.
I love Anime and sometimes, it does give you a bit of a mind-fuzz to figure out which is which :D. A silly example, is like Pokemon with "Team Rocket". The chick seems like a "Butch" lesbian and the guy seems like a timid gay guy heh.
I used to want to draw Anime and even ordered a book that teaches you...it never arrived as it was banned and confiscated for containing suspect content. And no, it wasn't Hentai ;D. But it was an art book, so you can imagine that it obviously had nude studies...even though it was in comic form.
I used to be taunted and badgered about being gay...while I wasn't...
Obviously due to my "frail" appearance, lack of sports involvement, my long hair during college and due to all of the above, my constant companionship with girls, assumptions was made...
I used to have a very emotional predisposition and that didn't help much either. Most likely it's the taunting that suppressed my emotional side.
I find girls just so much easier to get along with...although, I would usually get told to "Go buy us some cool-drinks" when they wanted to chat girl-stuff whereas a gay guy would have been welcomed in the conversation.
I must admit tho, if I was a girl, I would be most likely have been a lesbian...is that a typical guy thing to say?
I used to have a best friend in high-school whom tried his best to turn me, but just couldn't... Yes, he had a crush on me and had I "turned", he would most likely have been the "Butch" side of a relationship.
Any hew... love the pics!
Neil: Manly non-gay bear hug back at you :D
Drake: The one rule around here is that no one can diss another commenter (me they can attack all they want), so your comments are safe here. And another thing you may have noticed is that this is a pretty accepting bunch.
I don't know if you were reading when I did my post about non-traditional gender kids and whether certain boys wouldn't just be happier on girls soccer teams before a certain age. So yeah, I knew some guys who were not gay, and were male, though no, maybe not what society traditional thinks of as male (sensative, emotional, intuitive about others feelings) - Actually my sexual abuse counsellor was a guy who had what I call a neutral or non-sexual energy, or sort of supportive almost but not quite female energy. I assumed he was gay. 9 months later I made some inquiry if he had a partner, found out he was straight. Okay, did I think I would talk about sexual abuse of guys to a straight guy? No, but this guy gave me the listening and energy and space I needed to talk - he wasn't like THEM. And that's a compliment. And he was straight. He saved me many nights of nightmares, he did me a great service.
I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes what people don't value at first, is just what other people need. And that if the girls could figure out that you had enough energy to get you out of there as a "not gender neutral" gay male, then you were putting out your sexual energy, it just wasn't getting picked up by the guys obviously (or one guy who was hoping - you can't choose who you fall in love with! And you weren't!).
I wish your emotional side had not been repressed, but I understand the survival need.
As for being a lesbian, well, unless there is a girl you are after, turns out that like guys; girls come in all sorts of flavors (you want the independant sporty, "Hey want to do rock climbing or hang gliding?" girl; the tomboy who says, "Why don't you sit down while I deal with this engine" or the nesting type? - I only list a few: the Goddess (watch out for lots of bangles and lots of multi-coloured skirts), the professional lipstick lesbian, the grrl (being in a rock band may or may not be mandatory!), the "I'm not a lesbian, I'm Queer!" woman who likes women, etc.
But yeah, they sure are nice to look at, if you were closer I would definately lend you the book!
There is NO way i would see the last 4 pics as ANYTHING other than hetero. In fact, they look incredibly like a (very hetero) couple of friends of mine.
Seriously, would the average Japanese person look at the femme person in those pics and think "guy"? Cos i see ENTIRELY female figures (including secondary sexual bits) and facial features there...
(The ones with the red haired guy and long blonde haired "girl" (no, really, girl?) also remind me a lot of Agatha and Gil from the webcomic "Girl Genius": see this pic...)
Just sent you a card. Hope i got the address right (you are in Canada, but use a PO box number in the USA, right?)
Hey? You mean we can attack you?! Just kidding :D
Thanks Beth, I appreciate it. That's what I like about having friends like you...you give a different perspective to what the world has. And thinking out of the box, to me, is a good thing.
The same reason that makes it so easy for me to get along with females, also trips me up in terms of relationships ... Also, a "traditional" gender expectation of the guy is supposed to hunt the girl... I am much too shy and withdrawn to try and engage a pretty girl into a relationship.
Social expectations kills me. It's not natural. Just because you don't do, look or act what other people expects you to, makes you different... or an outcast. I guess, being "Marfanoid" has tought me to be more open minded and accepting...
It's like being bi-polar... Sometimes I feel that I am just classified as having a "problem" because I don't fit into the normal social box that everyone expects me to fit into.
A lot of times, I wonder how many psychological disorders is in actual fact just a normal variation that happens to be over and above what society expects. Obviously, it brings up a question of where do you draw the line... Something like serial killers is definately wrong, but that's not out of social expectations, it's immoral. Hmm...good point, there's a huge difference between morality and social acceptability...
Ugh...here I go again. Bloggin on your comments...sheesh!
But thanks for cracking open my mind and letting in some fresh air again...
Like you said, you challenge people...and you werent kidding ;D
Maybe I am getting old.
Or I am too much a Mom, but I just want to take most of those kids home and give them a good meal. Most of them look like they haven't eaten in weeks.
I guess an advantage of animation is one can blur these gender lines (any lines) and create starved androgynous people with pink hair or man-hands. It is interesting to me.
Also interesting -although there was a Yaoi series featured in an earlier post of yours that I quite liked, I found none of these in the least bit titillating. But that might just be me.
OSM
How come the Seme often looks angry? Isn't that sort of a turn-off?
I think sexy or good sex can be anything. The first time I (a pretty straight woman) really realized this was when I got.. um... a bit sweaty after reading a gay (boys) sex scene in a book by Poppy Z. Brite. Hot is hot. Whatever gets you revved up is good.
Interesting that clothing and hairstyle dictated gender to me. Does that make me shallow and conform to stereotypes? Ummm.
I saw a clip of a belly dancer on TV the other day dancing with a big ornate sword. She blanced it on her head and then on her torso whilst she did that belly rolling thing. I thought "ooh big sword and a lady ..." and thought of you. Maybe not your cup of tea but it was a very shiny sharp sword ;o)
I'm having my 2 remaining wisdom teeth out tomorrow under sedation so I may be missing in action for a while. I know that's pathetic by your gritty standards!
You crack me up. I went through each pic trying to see what you see, but none of it really floats my boat. That's probably a good thing since I am straight lol. Besides, weirder things do it for me. Hubby was off and cleaned house hung shelves I had been begging for ages to be done. Plus he cooked me breakfast this a.m. Forget foreplay, that does it for me.
Too tired to write anything. Will just say. GIVE IT TO ME SEXY BOYS
(Rupert come here)
Beautiful selection of pictures once again.
Being bisexual myself, I'm probably not the best judge of what is or isn't normal for lesbians. But, you know how Patti Smith said that she wanted to express how "the artist is beyond gender"? I guess yaoi is "art beyond gender" too? Or art that plays with gender lines and tropes, either way.
I used the term intersexed as my understanding it is the preferred term to use and yes, it often refers to those who may have once been called hermaphrodite. I have also read that having both complete sets of working genitalia is incredibly rare, but for the countless many who qualify by whomever sees them at birth (I assume) they are judged 'ambiguous'. From what I gather, the numbers are estimated between 1 in 2000 births to more like 1 in 200! This includes female-appearing babies with larger clitorises and male-appearing babies with very small penises... and there are MANY more variations which I won't attempt to cover here, but my understanding of the term is it refers to the medical description only, nothing to do with orientation. However, if a doctor says 'that looks like a penis to me, let's close that 'sort-of vagina' off' but this boy grows up feeling VERY sure they're in the wrong body... I can only reel at the implications.
Anyway, my possibly feeble original attempt was merely to suggest that with gender, as with so many things, humans can fall in a variety of locations on a glorious spectrum; the same with orientation. I thought your pictures were an interesting illustration of just this theory.
It is indeed interesting to hear that this IS dealt with in the Manga series you mentioned. North America seems so behind on many things like this; I'm sure Europe takes a much more progressive view, too.
Like Diane mentioned, somehow as a teen I acquired the theory that everyone is (potentially?) bisexual, or perhaps we learn to or have a preference... Yet I have a gay male friend who tells me he's ALWAYS known he was gay, from very, very young. I don't pretend to have all or any of the answers, I just like pondering the questions!
I would expect a woman of your glorious height to have appropriately-sized hands! I'm not especially tall (about 5'7") but I'm naturally muscular (even now that I can barely walk) and I've got a large frame - slim hips and legs that don't gain weight - more befitting a boy, than a girl, perhaps. I'm saved from looking too boyish by my breasts, lol!
When I was coming out (still am and still lack what feels like the best label for my orientation, so tend to default to queer, but it's not for avoiding the term lesbian, just I like to be... accurate and none seem quite right. Huh.) I wondered how I'd be seen by other women; I'm not very girly/femme or exactly what some migh call butch; I'm somewhere in betweenish :) .
Fairly recently, a woman (a lesbian) I met referred to me (in a very positive way) as a Girlie-Boi when I said I wasn't sure how people (read:queer/lesbian/bi woman) would see me. I was elated! You mean, there are other people who feel/think as I do and you could CALL it something?! I have since read it as 'femme-boi'. I guess I'm slightly tomboyish, but in a dykey kinda way. grins
There's something very satisfying about acquiring a sense of identity - less the label for me, more the sense that there are others who think/feel as I do.
Sorry! I'm dying to go to uni and take some anthro and sociology and women's studies classes, with the (farfetched) wish of finding people with whom to explore these fascinating topics with! Thanks for letting me blab a little here... guess that's what starting my OWN blog was for, hahaha!
Shiva: Um, as to would they see them as guys, well, the age group this is targeted for has limited exposure to guys as other than people who are loud and over THERE - so to imagine guys as sensual, beautiful, and in love with each other is very popular. The pictures I showed come from books or series of this artist and they are all boy/boy love series (or dating sim games - where you are playing the boy who wants the other boy to be your boyfriend).
Great picture from Girl Genius and I agree, totally on. Yeah I use the US one because I can get my post a couple times a week and often I am away due to doctor's appointments or in bed and cannot consistantly get my post here (which is frustrating when I DO have a package delivered - also Canadian Customs often charges to tell you that you DON'T have to pay for a gift, etc! ARG!).
Drake: I assure you, there are plenty of straight girls on the hunt themselves so you don't have to worry too much. And honestly, I can remember where I was but it was a forum board of females that were like: "Darn, where are the androgynous looking guys, they are so hot!" - and some were bragging because their boyfriend was so beautiful or so sensitive. So, there are girls who like EVERY type of guy, from Bad Boys to Bookworms.
I think sometimes people don't want to change so they don't like things that are different, I don't know, I had a run in with some real nasty types last night and was reminded that there are people like that - who are painful to be around. I try to avoid them!
One Sick Mother: Worry not, that other artist will soon be back too, though I wasn't aroused, I was more like, "That Uke is WAY too good at this femme fatale stuff (and sometimes looks WAY too young!).
haha, feed them all. Ironic becuase the one thing that girls books in Japan talk about endlessly is dieting. I mean, if you grow up in a country where a "tall" guy is 5'9" - your ideas of what is slim or not might be a bit different, I guess. I dunno - yeah, feed em!
Lene: I went back and looked and you are right, except for two pictures where I would say protective and the one where the two of them are in silk, and there is definate watching of arousal (at least to me) from the white haired Seme, they DO look angry. Maybe this artist has a problem doing, strong and determined - when I said seme's were agressive I mean in a Romance novel way, not like they are in 'roid rage all the time!
Cool. I read poppy Z brite, I think I know the book you are talking about. I remember reading another writer doing a gay sex scene and was laughing becuase it was SO flowery it was like two teddy bears having sex. Sorry, Thanks for letting me know I am not the only one who finds, um, individual satisfaction where she can!
RachelCreative: Uh, no, I have my wisdom teeth and am SO thankful I have not had to have them removed becuase of everyones horror stories so I will be thinking of you - a postcard is coming so that might cheer you up.
I don't think you are shallow, I noticed that body posture, clothes, and use of body space determine how most people (western people at least) determine sex, which is why a short haired lesbian wearing mens dockers gets called Sir at least once a day. And the body position, particularly in the clothed, or clothes slipping off, definately indicate a traditional gender - female for the Uke, Seme for the male. Oddly it has been that way in Japan for hundreds of years, male Geishas were (I am not sure if they still are) part of the norm (looked totally female), as they were preparing for the stage, where males played the female leads; so they lived and made thier living and a female entertaining men, fell in love or had people fall in love with them; offer them a business to stay with them forever. There are many movies, even which have played over here about this. Which means, I think that is sort of how they see it too, except they know it is a guy, and for the most part don't care.
I do like Belly Dancing, I do like swords. Seems a waste to balance it on your head though when you could be using it to chop dropping leaf or something.
Shea: Well, thanks for looking, I am curious what you did see, but it wasn't two women? I also became very curious at "weirder things to it for me?" Is hanging shelves it or is there MORE? Inquiring (and nosey) minds want to know!
Anna: Horaay, great comment, yeah, bring them on for Anna. Though I do have to say you did make me laugh while I was wheeling thinking, "Would Rupert be a good Yaoi manga?" And then somehow felt I was going to hell just for thinking that!
Devi: Thanks, I agree, it does seem to be beyond gender and I can't say why I am attracted to it (well I can't, there is this little tingling and then you start breathing faster....). The books which actually show like fluids and such, not so much for me but books of them falling in love or living a sort of normal life I enjoy (along with romance manga where the guy is kind and bookish and ends up in trouble and a girl with a sword shows up who is like 14 and goes, "I'll take care of this" and then protects him and they end up travelling together - I just like the gender bending and that females who want to protect guys aren't looked down on and guys who are pacifist and need protecting aren't either (oh look, I can see the Right Wing Brigade creating an straw person of me to burn!). It is just a relief to see that. There is a manga verion of Wizard of Oz like that where Dorothy is the one who takes care of the guys.
Well, the "guy" with the silver hair, who is with what looks like a girl with silver hair (but who you seem to be saying is not), would be attractive as a girl, but not so much as a guy.
I think that if I were to display any lesbian tendencies (my boyfriend is disappointed as I don't appear to have any; I think that I am allowed to be unfaithful with women, as long as I film it) I would be attracted to more butch girls. But then I don't exactly have that many girlie hobbies myself.
It is convenient to be heterosexual and not to have to worry about butch/femme stuff. Oh, and the guys in those don't really do much for me. Whatever my sexual orientation, girls are far more aesthetically pleasing. Although it does get more confusing with those pictures. I think that maybe they are not very good girls, and so to me seem less attractive than girls...
So if a straight girl (me) is turned on by those pics, and the guys are so femme, does that make her a lesbian?? See, if it makes you straight, it can may a straight.. gay! All hypothetically of course!
On the postcards you have sent me of Yaoi, my poor red-neck husband is so confused, he isn't sure if they are he's or she's and I think he is afraid to admit if they do "it" for him or not! Of course, they are just good friends after all. I LOVE those pictures.
Fun post!
Lisa Moon: Wow, I didn't know you were coming out (though since you invited me to a lesbian dance, that would make sense - DUH!). Congrats. I agree what you say about a sense of "I am not alone" - that is why my little anime figure in her wheelchair is important to me; that somewhere a company made a mold, created this character because people wanted it, becuase people EXISTED; I exist. There is no wheelie barbie (is there?). Or CP or Spina Bifida Barbie but I have an anime girl who tells me, I'm not alone. So finding a tag or a voice or a group or a identity that does the same for you sounds pretty exciting!
It was a shock to come from the UK where it is a bit more "back in the 80" and you sort of have a couple different lesbian identities to the west coast where there are a LOT of different ones. I mean, I never even hear people refer to themselves as Queer until three years ago; I was like, "Yes, I know you're queer, but are you butch or femme, or grrl, or boi or?" and they were like, "I'm QUEER!" with exasperation. Which is kind of funny/sad. Well, I'm a quick learner (I hope). So I know more phrases now.
I hope I didn't go postal on you about intersex, it is just so many people get it mixed up and say thing which can be painful to an already overly abused (medically and socially) group of individuals. The thought that until recently doctors were simply using a ruler and if the genitalia was X long: "Clit", if over that...Penis; determined AT birth. A RULER!!!! They used a RULER!!! Sorry.
I had to stop. It just seems so much like the human experiements condemned that I can't go on. Um, I do believe in a spectrum but like you have met people who were lesbians at 5 or 6, and I believe that for many people it is hard wired (I have WISHED to apply to the government to flash gay porn images at straight men for like 8 hours the way "ex-gay" ministry does to try and 'deprogram' gays to see if we can MAKE a gay man; but I think as Drake pointed out earlier, it wasn't like the opportunity wasn't there, it just wasn't who he was. And I guess for me and Linda and you; the whole dude and picket fence wasn't for us either.
Abi: thanks for your rundown. Your comment about your boyfriend is very funny, but I hope not true, or if it is, that makes it funnier. Interesting about the butch. And I will say that "girlie" in lesbian land (particularly in the UK) can be quite different than hetero world as I was considered, rather disgustingly, the MOST femme lesbian in a particularly large region of the UK. This was because I a) had hair longer than to my shoulders and b) used foundation but no other make up. I wore jeans and a top; but mostly athletic or useful as I had to move boxes at my bookstore. I cooked, I didn't know how to tune and engine much less change the oil (a local underground magazine offered 'plumbing for lesbians' courses - I told Linda, "If I WANTED to fix a toilet, I would have figured out to do so; besides, isn't that why men were invented?") - ergo I was "super-girlie!" (oh and I wore earrings!).
While compared to a girl I worked with who was 21 or 20 and wore a bright pink exercise suit with "Barbie" across her breasts, in hetero land, I was "butch" - I was told I need mascara and eyeliner and ...
I laughed again at, "They don't seem to be very good girls" - well they do seem a bit lacking in the curve department - but also they are a bit too much like dolls, they have the clothes and just sit there looking pretty. Well except those who go around in night shirts and silk Kimonos (seriously, that person must be REALLY bad and tying knots or something the way the clothes keep slipping down!).
Tammy: All hypotethically of course. Well, I will definately have to send you one that is a bit more up gender bendy then to confuse your husband entirely (just tell him they are "just good friends....at a halloween party!") I am glad you enjoyed the pic. I think for someone like me, I have always enjoyed a sort of asthetic purity which is what makes me like Yaoi as well, they just seem to perfect, and they play with your mind - and my mind doesn't get played with enough (oh that sounds dirty doesn't it!).
You know, a domesticated man does it for me lol .I once complained to my husband about some things I wished he liked, had an interest in. etc. He said, "baby you want me to be GAY!" So when he cleans house or anything it makes me very happy. The funny thing is we met up with two gay friends of his( a couple) at a furniture store. Me and one of the guys had a long discussion about furniture and stuff. I told hubby why can't you be more like him? He knew the right kind of wood, and he knew exactly what I was talking about when I asked him where to put this and that. Once again hubby reminded me that he was NOT gay lol. We got a big laugh out of it! I told him he should invite them over for dinner, and I thought we would have lots of things to talk about. So give me a picture of a big butch man with a dusting mop and an apron on, and that would do it for me lol! Now I'm really thinking I'm weirder than I originally thought. At least maybe I made you laugh today.
Connie Kaldor, a singer from Regina, once said that curling is THE most erotic sport. She said that there was something about a man with a broom in his hand...
As for earrings, I have one in the right ear and 5 in the left. Does that makes me "supper feminine"? If it helps, I did let 4 holes grow in on the left ear - yes, I had 9 holes in one ear.
Hugs,
Neil
(I skip the sweetie and go for Darling)
Darling! (if you're going to hell surely I am too:)being a bad bisexual christian as I am.)
About gender....(Hi Lisa) I always thought (don't know if this make sense or if it's to biological...)that it is like a line were "masculine" is at one end, and "feminine" at the other and that people regardless of sex is somewhere on that line, society and upbringing can push you in one direction (likely if you are a woman, society will push you towards the "feminine" side.)
I personally don't think everybody is born bisexual, but some of us are:) I 've got friends who are gay and would probably never go for hetero experiences, and I 've got straight friends who wouldn't understand or try gay experiences for their life. But WE who are. just might go to hell for loving Rupert and wanting him to be in a manga, he he he :)
Off to work now...."dreaming of Rupert". (Sorry, you see, not much too say about previous post, and now I am totally excited. I wonder if that makes me a)sexually frustrated. b)totally and utterly shallow.
take care
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