Monday, March 13, 2006

Straight men and lesbian kisses


Men. Yes, you guys who showed up because I put lesbian in the title: Thanks.

Every time I put the word “lesbian” in a blog title about 20 guys show up, stay for 2 seconds looking for naked pictures, and disappear. Yet, if it was not for this known (and predictable) nature of male-kind I would not be able to enjoy the lesbian subplot of season 2 of OC, or the same in season 2 of One Tree Hill. Without the big dollar draw of the guy/lesbian attraction would Willow have ever kissed Tara? Would there even be the L-word series? (they are all hot long haired lesbian women because they...reflect the community?).

Lesbians on Project Runway, the lesbian-cheerleader episode of Veronica Mars, Ally McBeal’s (Flockhart’s) kiss with Ling (Lucy Liu), the lesbian kiss on season two of Las Vegas; these are your accomplishments.

Kudo’s to you guys, whose relentless obsession lets me give The Kiss keychains to my friends, watch lesbian jokes on the TV series The Job and even get some lesbian humor into Gilmore Girls (and a kiss between Rory and Paris). It lets sexually explicit series like Tipping the Velvet get made by the BBC.

The whole straight male/lesbian interest thing is a mystery to me (and many, many others). The fascination is creepy, maybe kinda sad and produces lots of horrific explotation sites (no thank-you’s for that!). Regardless of your intent, I benefit from most guy's known attention-getter, so please keep writing in those letters to every network saying: “We want more lesbians on TV, especially with kissing, particularly during sweeps week.”
http://www.clublez.com/movies/lesbian_movie_scenes/titles_new_02.htm

10 comments:

Karla said...

I think what's really gross is this guy obsession with twins. Think about it...a guy wanting to sleep with two women, who are SISTERS. he wants to participate in INCEST! EW!

My very dear friend who I have known since kindergarten is a lesbian, and I performed her commitment ceremony. I felt so honoured to be such a big part of their lives. My husband was mad he couldn't be there. (He was out of town.) I think he thought there would be hot girl on girl action. There wasn't, at least not how he was imagining it. Though I did snuggle up with the brides on their hammock later in the evening.

Simon Logan said...

I think the source of men's love for lesbian scenes is twofold. One is that they think two women getting it on will *obviously* not mind a man joining in and threesomes will be ahoy! The second is that men, inherently insecure creatures that we are, don't see other women as a threat. How many men do you know of that would kill another man for just looking at their girlfriend but if another WOMAN was interested they would actively encourage it?! Why? Simply because they think a woman couldn't POSSIBLY fulfil the same needs as they fulfil to their g/f so there's no reason to worry. I think most men consider lesbianism a funny little hobby that women become interested in temporarily in between shagging men...

Elizabeth McClung said...

"they think two women getting it on will *obviously* not mind a man joining in and threesomes will be ahoy!"

So true - see my blog post further down about how the local homeless guy has already asked if we could threesome with him.

Karla, I never really thought about the ramificiation of Twins - now all those 80's doublemint gum commercials are starting to look very dodgy indeed.

Anonymous said...

Let me see if I understand this post: you (1) find men who are fascinated with “girl-girl action” to be “creepy,” and yet, (2) you are grateful for this “creepy preoccupation” because (you believe) it motivates the creation of popular media depictions of lesbian interaction which you, presumably, enjoy because they titillate your own prurient interests. So, you find them creepy, but enjoy (approximately) the same pornography for (approximately) the same reasons. Doesn’t that make you “creepier” than they are?

In some sense, this disqualifies you from even asking the question of why the male fascination for “girl-girl action” exists. (At least, it disqualifies you from asking the question with smug indignation). Nonetheless, it is an interesting question, in spite of the source.

I see at least one comment from a brave fellow that attempted to provide an honest answer. As a fellow “creep” – who has done massive amounts of personal research in this area – I can say that the whole issue is considerably more complex. Certainly, he is not wrong for a certain segment of men. He is referring, specifically, to egotistical (and sexist) men who are stimulated by the idea of three common lovers in a bed as an extension of their own inflated self-importance. There is plenty of pornography being produced that speaks directly to this particular visualization. This cannot explain it all, however. These are “harem fantasies” where the women are subservient and impersonal creatures who want only to be sexually stimulated from any hand. Such inflated male egos have no trouble mentally substituting themselves for the young, well-endowed male models who are usually employed in this kind of scenario.

Some theorize that female-female sexual depictions are attractive to men because it depicts women as being wanton and as horny as they are – which is something, according to this theory, that is not traditionally expected. These are girls who just can’t get enough! There is definitely something to this theory, but, again, it cannot explain it all. There is nothing in it to explain the sizeable popularity of girl-girl pornography. Such an attitude would find all forms of sexual activity involving (apparently) eager and willing females to be equally stimulating.

This commenter did, however, graze a much deeper issue when he mentioned the insecurity of men who are stimulated by girl-girl depictions. This bespeaks other motivations besides power and self-worship. Some men, (yours truly), do not exactly identify with the women in girl-girl interactions, but feel a kind of attraction to it is as being free from the “baggage” of a male sexuality in which they do not feel competent. Sometimes, it is a real or perceived sense of familiarity, cooperativeness and “secret knowledge” of female-female sexual interactions that appeals so strongly. Such men are never homosexuals, and male homosexuality seems, by contrast, like everything bad about their own sexuality – times two. Such men are usually uncomfortable with their own bodies and their own (non-imaginary) sexual activity, and see attractive and desirable naked men doing things they never get to do as a bit of cruel mockery. In simpler terms, the last thing they really want to see is the big throbbing cock of a man who has everything they will never have dominating a pornographic scene. They project their own yearning upon attractive women engaged in “the gentle passions,” free from male competition and interference. In an extreme expression, it can even be a form of emotional “transsexualism” without any component of “vagina-envy.” This explains why the lesbian acts depicted in the pornography directed at these men never involve masculine “butch” females. It is a full-scale rejection of the traditional strong-weak or dominant-dominated sexual role ordering.

These are often going to be men who have rarely (if ever) had a strongly-connected and fulfilling sexual relationship with a woman. They may envy how easily women are intimate with one another – even in ways that are not overtly or directly sexual – because they have great difficulty attaining such connection at any level in their own interpersonal relationships. They may even believe that such fulfillment between men and women is literally impossible, (or impossible for them), and, thus, reject popular romantic images and notions. They may perceive, (or imagine), a level of gratification that only exists in the female-female relationship, which they can only experience vicariously.

It might be argued that everyone’s sexuality is unique and that such blanket labels and explanations are never more than weak generalizations of an infinitely complex situation. As such, you may still find the whole subject “creepy” but not because it is “less honest” than your own sexuality – or all that different.

Elizabeth McClung said...

I think there are two rather important distinctions that need to be made here:

1) I did not list "pornography", I listed mainstream commercially funded Television. It does not seem that you view two girls kissing as "pornography" as say an old school Baptist minister might, but rather the massive amount of heterosexual fantasy films which depict two women sexually active with each other. This is not lesbian pornography (as in sexual film for lesbians), of which the Black Cat label is the most prominant. I thanked straight men for Willow and Tara kissing, not 20,000 videos of vapid manipulation of women which is more like animated blow-up dolls than genuine sexuality.

2) I am attracted to women - I am a lesbian, named for the women of lesbos who had sexual relations and attraction to other women, most notable being Sappho. What sexual orientation is contained in "men who need to watch women having sex together"?

Anonymous said...

"What sexual orientation is contained in 'men who need to watch women having sex together'"?

Well, it may never have been labeled properly, but nonetheless there are at least some men -- such as myself -- who have a very strong, visceral response to seeing two attractive women making love. And I'm not talking about the categories of response previously mentioned, which get brought up over and over again when this topic is discussed. I'm talking about a direct, immediate, and powerful erotic response every bit as real as yours, that can't be explained or rationalized away as insecurity with male sexuality, or as a projection of sexist male egotism into a "harem" fantasy, blah blah blah. The kind of male response to lesbian sexuality that I am talking about -- and I grant that it may not be typical -- almost has to have some kind of a biological basis. I can't imagine what evolutionary factors could account for this -- other than Nature having a sense of humor.

Star Trek Voyeur said...

I'm a guy, and I've had a threesome a few times with two girls who were roomates, but it wasn't as great as I thought. The emotional connection wasn't there. I can't tell give you a generalization of why other guys think about girls being with other girls are, but I just find attractive girls attractive, that's all.

If it was straight porn with an un-attractive girl, I'm not interested. If it's hardcore lesbian porn with dirty talking and fake boobs, I don't dig it. But if it's even sensual softcore porn with two cute girls, I'll get mesmorized just because it's double the stimulation.

Now, if a girlfriend were to like having sex with other girls, I might have a problem. If she only liked having sex with just one girl she's been with before, then I wouldn't mind so much as long as I understood their relationship and mine. I wouldn't want to force a threesome, I figure it's personal.

That said, there's a lot of girls that turn me on, and they don't have to be kissing other girls. I just like seeing lesbian chemistry, because guy-girl chemistry is usually less erotic.

kelvin said...

KELVIN MARTINEZ FROM HONDURAS CENTRAL AMERICA

I AM GUY WHO IS LOVE WITH A LESBIAN GIRL
I�VE MEET HER AT MY JOB WE WORK TOGETHER SHE TOLD ME THAT TWO MONTH AFTER I�VE MEET HER� I TOLD HER THAT I FOUND HER VERY ATRACTIVE AND HELL SHE IS� I AM 24 YEARS OLD AND SHE`S 22 SHE HAS A KID THREE YEARS OLD� I`VE MEET HER FAMILY BUT THEY DON�T KNOW THAT SHE IS A LESBIAN�

I AM CRAZY ABOUT HERE AND I TRIED HARD TO SEE HER AS A FRIEND BUT I CAN� I WAS THINKING OF QUICKTING MY JOB BUT I KNOW THAT IT WILL BE USELESS BECAUSE WHEN I DON�T SEE I GO CRAZY�

THE WORST OF ALL THIS MADNESS IS THAT I DON�T BEALIVE THAT SHE IS A LESBIAN I CANT SEE THAT� EVERYTIME SHE�S TALKING TO A GUY I GET MAD� CAUSE SHE IS SO BEAUTIFULL THAT EVERY MEN WOULD LIKE TO GET HER IN BED�.

WE GO OUT A LOT SHE LIKES TO BE AROUND ME BUT THAT IS BECAUSE I CARE A LOT ABOUT HER� HER KID LIKES ME HER MOTHER THINKS THAT I AM HER BOYFRIEND AND HER DAD ALSO� I TOLD HER THAT I CAN GO TO HER HOUSE BECAUSE I DON�T WANT TO DESAPOINT HER PARENTS�

I AM VERY GENTLE TO HER� SHE TOLD ME ONES THAT SHE HAVE TO FAITH THAT SHE WILL FEEL LOVE FOR A MEN AND THAT MAYBE EVEN MARIED A MAN BUT� I DON�T KNOW I AM CONFUCE CAN SOME BODY HELP ME PLEASE

WHA CAN I DO� WHAT SHOULD I DO �

DJGALAN102@GMAIL.COM

phallacy said...

Sorry, I'm in a bit of a hurry, Winter here and i have to light the fire, put dinner on etc.
I loved the acerbic comment at the start of this site "you guys who've come here coz 'lesbian' was inthe link...".
I submit this now, I'll be back to the PC in about an hour.
My situation is simple. I'm a married straight male, a father, have gay male friends (geography & time, see below)but my happiest time was with two different Lesbian couples. (Eine Ehepaar waren deutsche, aus Berlin, wenn vielleicht sie lesen, dann bekannst Dir mich ganz deutlich- erinnerungste Ihre Goa?)
Time & Tide have marooned me on the far strand of retirement, with fond memories of my previous lives(lifes).
How is it possible to meet (long term)Lesbian couples without becoming mired in the porn/bar/BDSM thing? What happened to the 60/70s Love we once had?
Anyway, if anyone can suggest anything helpful, I'd be grateful.
Back after dinner and putting to bed 2 kids I'm caring for whilst their mum is at work.

goldberry said...

I'm a man, and I think lesbian kisses, albeit fake lesbian kisses, is too widespread and kind of tacky. There's no integrity in it, and really, kind of gross.